They might be younger, faster, or have a bigger engine…. but you can Suffer Better.
Peter Downing and Bob Africa are using Suffer Better to tap the inexhaustible commitment of the endurance athlete community to preserve and protect our natural environment while improving local communities.
Additional Links
Suffer Better (Website): https://sufferbetter.com/about
Suffer Better (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/sufferbetter/
It Matters To Me (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/adamcasey/
It Matters To Me (YouTube): https://www.youtube.com/@itmatterstomepodcast
Partners and Sponsors
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Transcript
Adam Casey: Peter and Bob, welcome to this show. How are you guys doing today? Great.
Peter Downing: Good to be here. Yeah. Excellent. Appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. Thanks for that.
Adam Casey: Now this is going to be a first for most listeners out there. You guys are my first two guests to be on the show at the same time, but definitely couldn’t do this interview without the both of you here, because what we’re going to talk about today is the organization and the events that you run under the umbrella of Suffer Better.
Adam Casey: It’s something that is, I think, definitely growing in popularity and going to be something our listeners are going to want to check out. But before we get into that, one way I kind of like to start the show with each episode is a question about the guests and who they were before they became the person that they are today.
Adam Casey: And I do that with a kind of fun question about their childhood and who they were growing up. And I like to. I wrote a little bit differently each time. But you know, it inevitably just comes out as, If I knew you growing up, What kinds of stories would I tell about you? And since we have both you today.
Adam Casey: Peter, how about I start with you? Peter, if I knew you growing up, What kinds of stories would I tell about you?
Peter Downing: That’s such a funny question. So I’ll start with back in the day. I used to go on a fishing trip with my dad and all of his male buddies and of course my brothers. And we all got nicknames on this trip and this will go where it’ll make sense to you, but when I was a kid when I first started doing that, I was Chubby.
Peter Downing: And my nickname On this fishing trip with all these serious men, you know, who, you know, would take off from their big, powerful jobs to go fishing for a week. My nickname was Gel Bell, which was short for Jelly Belly. And it’s one of those things that I don’t think my dad or any of his buddies ever even thought that something like that would get to me.
Peter Downing: But of course it did. And it’s, it’s part of what led me. To this whole endurance athlete world as cause here I am as a kid and all these people that supposedly I respected and admired and so on. All they thought of me as was this little fat kid. And so as I’ll still remember, it was about ninth grade when things started to change and I got.
Peter Downing: seriously into running first roads then trails, then ultras and so on. But I don’t think any of those guys, most of whom are, are now passed away would even begin to recognize me. Now, after all that. So it’s one of those things when they talk about how those childhood things impact you over the course of your life.
Peter Downing: That one was very much true for me. It was a big deal for me.
Adam Casey: Yeah, it always, for me, it’s the same and somewhat similar thing. I can remember very much. I guess the term body shamed when I was younger and there’s not a day that goes by or at least a run that goes by that does, that I don’t repeat some of that, the, some of the things that I heard for better or worse.
Adam Casey: But yeah, it’s funny how that stuff can just get underneath your skin. Bob, how about, how about you? What kinds of stories would I tell about you growing up?
Bob Africa: Yeah, that’s a, it is a great question.
Bob Africa: I would say that, you know, I was on the go. Like I was always moving, running, active, you know, I was big into BMX and moto, a hockey player Soccer player.
Bob Africa: I was not a runner by any means. I remember like my mom would say like on Sunday nights, I’d be like, can we go someplace, you know, and she was like, everything’s closed. And I’m like, well, how about Turkey Hill? Which was, you know, I grew up in Pennsylvania. That was kind of the Pennsylvania version of, of seven 11.
Bob Africa: So I always wanted to go and keep moving. And I think there’s a lot of reasons for that. I think that, you know Yeah, not, not the easiest childhood in some ways and kind of being alone sometimes. And that, that’s one way I could kind of fill the space and keep myself kind of, preoccupied.
Bob Africa: So I was definitely on the go.
Bob Africa: So it definitely, people would say that he was moving quickly, never slowing down, can never sit still and, you know, fast forward today. And I’m very much focused on slowing down. I’m not always in the. The physical sense per se, but just in the kind of mental, emotional, it’s just slow down and sit in it.
Bob Africa: So yeah, that, that would be one of probably many ways people would explain me.
Adam Casey: It’s funny to say that you’re slowing down, I would say, if anything, it feels like you’ve sped up. I mean in your later years you’re you know,
Peter Downing: I was going to say that I’m glad you did.
Adam Casey: Yeah. You’re let’s, let’s, let’s not.
Adam Casey: You know, let’s, not gloss over the fact that in 2013, you were a lead man. And for people that are out there that are wondering, you know, my, most of my listeners are going to be familiar with a Leadville trail, 100 miler race, but they’re not maybe familiar with lead man actually is. So what is the lead man and how did you slow down in achieving this, this status?
Bob Africa: Yeah, I mean, it’s lead man, lead woman, and now they call it lead challenge. I’ve done it twice first time in 2013 and 14, I did it again. And it’s basically the whole Leadville race series events in one summer. So, it starts with a marathon, which is actually this weekend, then it goes to a 50 mile… In July, there’s a 50 mile either bike or run, and then in August, it’s kind of the business, you have the 100 mile bike on a Saturday, they do a 10K the following day, which is kind of insulting, and then five days later, you do the 100 mile run.
Bob Africa: So, that’s kind of the business, and yeah, so that, yeah, it’s a big chunk of time in Leadville and a lot of time up high. And you know, Peter’s always paced me and helped me through that. My first Leadville was in 2000 and that’s how kind of Peter and I really. Met was through, through the running community.
Bob Africa: So yeah.
Adam Casey: And I would love to, I think that’s a great way to transition into this and, and to how you two actually know each other. And so, Peter, I know you used to be in the Peace Corps, or at least I read that you were in the Peace Corps. Yep. Maybe, maybe someone I was , maybe, maybe not, but as how do you go from being in the Peace Corps to then pacing pa, pacing Leadville?
Peter Downing: Well, as, as I said, You know, I, I got into this running and I was really lucky when I lived overseas. I lived with two English volunteers who were essentially the British equivalent to, to Peace Corps. They were called VSOs, Voluntary Service Overseas. And we lived together in this small town in, in Ghana, West Africa.
Peter Downing: But one of them, Rich is still one of my great friends. He lives in England. But he was a runner and… We just, from the minute I landed in their little house in this little town, every weekend we’d you know, jump on the, the local trails such as they were and run through the forest you know, and I just, it was one of those spectacular occasions.
Peter Downing: And I continued to do that afterwards. You know, did the usual, you know, marathon stuff, the Denver marathon, the, you know I did Boston. And and then I met this guy his name, his first name was Mike. And I met him at a run up near Breckenridge and he started talking about this 35 mile run.
Peter Downing: And to me at the time, I think this was probably in the eighties somewhere. That was just inconceivable to me. That somebody did that, right? I mean, I’m like, holy shit, that’s a long way. And he was the first person I’d ever met that had one of those double water belt bottle carriers around his waist.
Peter Downing: I’m like, whoa, that’s like cool. What is that? And so it was the Doc Holliday run that was at the time back up in Glenwood. And so I decided I had to go try that. And, it was just so fun. And I did okay. I finished third, I think, beside, behind two sort of, I guess, legends, Tom Sobel and Skip Hamilton.
Peter Downing: And I just felt like that sort of launched me into that. And at the same time, I was. I was at the time I was an attorney and there was nothing better for when you’re an attorney than getting away from being an attorney for really long stretches of time. And so I I just, every chance I got out of the office, I’d go run.
Peter Downing: And it was just funny. And then I Bob and I had heard about each other and somebody had said, Oh, you’ve got to meet this guy, Bob. And we did, as, as he talked about, you know, the other day met in at the outdoor retail show and in Salt Lake city. And we just, you know, we clicked and we ran together.
Peter Downing: We had fun. We trained together. I don’t know. We it was great. And, you know, we are so much about. The things that we talked about and thought about, we were aligned in so many things, and that’s why it totally made sense for Suffer Better to crawl out of that, that connection and, and evolve into all of that.
Peter Downing: But yeah, from, you know, it, it, it really did started with, you know, the run through the jungle kind of thing. And It was amazing. So it was a great way to get things kicking and started. And it’s it’s still part of what I love the most today.
Adam Casey: And Bob, on the other side of the equation, what was it like for you to be mentored in some way by Peter?
Adam Casey: Maybe that’s not the right word, how did Peter influence you through your kind of endurance evolution?
Bob Africa: I mean, definitely mentor is appropriate. And when I first met Peter. And I was probably late 20s. And, you know, I guess Peter’s probably early 40s, you know, somewhere in there. And so, you know, he was a bit on the older side, I thought.
Bob Africa: And I was like, okay, let’s go out and run together. And because I was training for my first Leadville, and I know that, you know, Peter had been second in Leadville a handful of times and had, you know, has course records. extremely accomplished in the running world and respected. So I was like, cool, let me go, you know, run with him.
Bob Africa: And I’ll never forget the first time he ran. I just got my ass handed to me for like three or four hours. So that was the wake up call. But then, like you said, we just put these hours in and we just go out and have a great time and, and, you know, toil around in the mountains for hours and hours. And so we got the training in, but we also just got great connection about, you know, Family work life.
Bob Africa: You know, he actually, I mean, I’m now divorced, but he was, you know, he married Darcy and I so he was, you know, You know, they’re, you know, being the kind of efficient in that sense. So he’s been very instrumental in my life for, for years and years. And, you know I’ve seen his kids grow up. He’s watching my daughter grow up.
Bob Africa: So it’s just, it’s, it’s way more than running, but they’re running kind of at the, at the core of that. So it’s been great. Yeah. It’s it keeps on, just gets better.
Peter Downing: Yeah. No doubt.
Adam Casey: It’s funny how the, you know, every community I think likes to lay claim to being close knit and being inclusive and I’m not saying that they’re not, but I think, you know, for the most part, running is one of especially trail running is one of those communities that.
Adam Casey: you know, you, you really get to see someone at their, their best and their worst through some of these events. And I think, you know, there’s a, you know, you get to see a totally different side of a person at mile 77 versus mile like four, if you’re going out for like a fun run or something with them.
Adam Casey: And so I think that’s just beautiful that you guys have connected in that sense. We’ll see. So you mentioned, you mentioned the, the crux of the interview, the, the, the, the, the organization that you guys have both come to run together called Suffer Better. If you could, I’ll throw this over to you, Peter.
Adam Casey: Could you explain at a high level what Suffer Better is and why the name Suffer Better is the one you chose?
Peter Downing: Yeah, I mean, I’ll when we talk a little bit about the first part, but then I feel like I always want Bob to talk about where the name came from, because that’s really, that came from him. But when it gets right down to it, Suffer Better is really all about getting.
Peter Downing: All of us that are part of this endurance community and we focus mostly on trail runners But I mean it’s much bigger than that. Obviously, it’s mountain bikers. It’s through hikers. It’s it’s all of that to Appreciate what how lucky we are to have all these amazing places outdoors to to run to ride to Refresh ourselves to rejuvenate to all of those pieces and to then take some of that passion and commitment and put it into giving back to those places so that future generations, Bob’s daughter, my kids All are fortunate enough to experience those same things and be outdoors and appreciate what that offers.
Peter Downing: And, and so really, it really does get down to what we call the give your all and give back piece. And, and, you know, that’s, that’s really our mission and why we do what we do. And You know, and I think Bob can best talk about where, where the name came from, because it clearly fits for everything that we’re trying to do.
Bob Africa: I guess the name came from, it was, it was about 10 years ago now, and I think I was running. The first time I ran the lead man, maybe the second, but that doesn’t matter. It was, it was the marathon and I just turned 40. So yeah, 10 years ago, I just turned 40. I just turned 50 a few months ago.
Bob Africa: And in my life, there was a lot going on, you know, I was running a, I was my kind of first time president CEO of a company that was kind of insolvent in a really tough shape. I was going through. a separation into divorce at the time, you know, I had a young girl, you know, two, three year old Sophia was, was very young.
Bob Africa: I had just kind of come off a knee surgery. So just a lot of really difficult, challenging things were happening in my life. And, you know, like, like, you know, as many of us know, sport or athletics or running will, will, it’s a place, kind of a safe place, safe. Place for, you know, kind of sometimes escape and hide, but also you can get a lot of solace and clarity there.
Bob Africa: But I went up and I hopped into the lead man and ran the marathon. I had a, I had a really good day, you know, I don’t know exactly, but you know, probably top five and you know, just, you know, things kind of clicked for me. And a gentleman, you know, who was in his twenties kind of finished behind me and he was like, man, how do you do it?
Bob Africa: You know, you got. All that going on. And you know, he was saying, you know, you got some gray hair, you know, it was kind of the old guys. And and I was like, Hey man, like you, you know, you’re younger, you probably got a higher VO two max, you know, all of this stuff, but I can Suffer Better. And it just kind of, that’s, that’s all I said was that, you know, I Suffer Better and, you know, I think we all some of us understand that like cadence when you get into that kind of grinding.
Bob Africa: I really like climbing hills you get to that grind and that suffering and you just find that place where it hurts so good and that that’s kind of how it came from and then I just as a joke I kind of stenciled it on t shirts just made this like Suffer Better kind of this mantra almost in life and I remember you know sitting Late at night at work or, you know, whatever it might be and just Suffer Better, Suffer Better became kind of this mantra.
Bob Africa: And, you know, there’s a Buddhist piece to that, like, like the suffering. So what, you know, there’s involuntary voluntary obviously. You know, a lot of these athletics are very voluntary suffering, but that’s kind of where the name was born from made some t shirts, people started saying, what is that?
Bob Africa: And you know, just, Oh, it’s just a, just a slogan or a mantra. And then. That’s when Peter and I started talking and I’m like, Hey, we should maybe do something with this. And that’s where it kind of, you know, that was kind of the inception of Suffer Better as it is today. It’s come a long way, but that’s kind of how it started.
Bob Africa: And, you know, at the core of that was also this. idea of like, how do we give back? You know, like you know, you, you go, go, go. Much of what we do in life is selfish, you know, whether it be athletics or career or whatever. And it was like, how can we, you know, do something to make this world a little better, this community a little better.
Bob Africa: So there was always an idea or an inkling of how can we give back to the community. So that, that was kind of the, yeah, the story.
Adam Casey: Yeah. Right. The first thing that I thought of when I first just came across the organization before even knew anything about it was somewhat similar to what you’re talking about with the, it’s the quote from, and I, no matter how I pronounce this name, I know it’s going to be wrong.
Adam Casey: So I’m just going to say It’s, I think it’s Nietzsche but I know it’s, there’s, anyway, not important, but let’s just say it’s Nietzsche, but it’s the quote, to live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering. And that was the first thing that I thought of when I first, when I just saw the name and it’s just like.
Adam Casey: There’s just something about the just even the word suffer that just, you know, it has a poetic meaning to me. And so I think that’s one of the many decisions that you guys have made along the way that I would put in the category of, of right, because you’ve gone, you’ve grown this idea of suffering better from stenciling on t shirts to now being this event that gets You know at least 100 people if not more and it is now part of a series So you kind of spoke to it a little bit before And in saying that you wanted to have this idea of like giving back both Was there really, was there a single moment that you think that you could point to where you decided like, Hey, this is something more than an idea.
Adam Casey: Like this is more than just this selfish, like, okay, I’m doing this for my own wellbeing because I’m going through some shit right now. But yeah, it was there, was there something specific, like a catalyst that really puts you over the edge? Because again, for listeners that are out there that are maybe thinking that, Hey, like I’ve got this idea that I want to transition into a nonprofit.
Adam Casey: Maybe hearing you talk about when you decided it was that key moment, it’ll help them as well.
Bob Africa: I mean, I can speak to that quickly. And then Peter can have at it, but you know, one thing that really was, you know, still is to this day is that I have a nephew that has special needs. So he was a code blue baby, you know, and he didn’t have oxygen for the first minute of his life.
Bob Africa: And. Now he’s 27, 28, but kind of operates more as, you know, probably a six to 10 year or probably 10, 12 year old. So, you know, he was so special needs and, you know, very high functioning, but, you know, my family, my sister. And my mom, but my sister really just dedicated her life to Special Olympics.
Bob Africa: And that was a really powerful and instrumental thing in my life, just to, to see her, my family. And then, you know, my nephew just kind of go through that journey and how much, you know, how difficult it is, but how beautiful it is and how much, you know, you have to give back to make that happen. So that Special Olympics is, you know, we’ve donated to that, those organizations.
Bob Africa: Was one thing that was, was one of the first ones, early ones as far as give back. And that was probably the, you know, what got me thinking about giving back was, was Special Olympics.
Peter Downing: Yeah, I, I, I think I just remember our conversations from the get go talking about that. And even when I think when we first printed up that first round of t shirts, we actually talked about that, the importance of not just putting all that, all that, you know, the huge amounts of money we made into our pockets, but that we did something good with it.
Peter Downing: Because I think even back then we realized Just how fortunate we were, privileged we are, et cetera, to be able to do what we do in the places we do. And, and just knowing that there were so many others everywhere that we’re less fortunate and that we should do something what we can to be part of helping out, as opposed to just.
Peter Downing: Doing the usual selfish. And as Bob said, it’s mean all of this, what we do really this running and training is is pretty darn selfish in a lot of ways. Not that that makes it bad, of course, but I mean, it’s really self focused. And so Trying to help direct people’s attention to people and things in need is, is also for us just critically important.
Peter Downing: And and since we do so much of it outdoors, the outdoors makes a ton of sense. And with the issues of climate change and all of that it really makes sense for us to put our money where our mouth is in a way, I guess.
Adam Casey: So speaking of the environmental issues, because that is something I was going to ask about and how did you identify environmentalism, but I think you already answered it, but I, but you, you guys have two pressing environmental issues that you’ve at least identified through on the Suffer Better website and probably in the mission statement, and it’s to raise awareness for climate change.
Adam Casey: How did you come to select those two things? Why not three? Why not 10? Or why not one? And then why, how did you come to select those two? And why do you feel that those two are the most pressing when in the realm of climate change?
Peter Downing: Such a great question. But I know for, for the, the one we do in the winter, running up for air I’ll, I’ll just never forget us talking about, and I, I read the article, I think it was Luke Nelson that actually wrote the article that was in the Patagonia catalog back then.
Peter Downing: Good at some point, and he was talking about Rufa running up for air in Salt Lake City. And he talked about Jared Campbell, who started the whole thing. And I remember Bob and I talking and just saying to ourselves. Look, we have crappy air here in the winter, too. And what a great way to get our trail running community to unite around something important.
Peter Downing: And so we reached out originally to Jared and just said, Hey would you ever consider, you know, letting someone like us put on a running up for air event here in Colorado? And Jared, I mean, he’s about the most amazing human I’ve ever met and the nicest guy and the most unselfish. And he said, absolutely go for it.
Peter Downing: And so that was six, six years ago, Bob, I think. And and that running up for air has now grown. We were the first of the non. Salt Lake groups to, to join. And now there is a, a roof of Ogden, a roof of Rock Canyon, a roof of Missoula, a roof of Seattle and us, and they’ve now created their own separate.
Peter Downing: Nonprofit to oversee all of these events and their expansion because there’s a lot of places that would do that. So I think that one made sense from that regard. And then just looking at all these places and the whole public lands question became such a significant one for us, because almost everywhere we run is whether it’s local, state, federal we’re privileged to run on these Public lands.
Peter Downing: And so that also then made a ton of sense for us just to focus on how to contribute to that preservation and expansion and all of that. So that made sense to us.
Adam Casey: And Bob, I’ll kick it over to you for once you’ve, once you’ve initiated this idea and you’ve decided you’re going to put it into practice, what was it like to then go on the offensive and start raising awareness for this and start recruiting people to these events?
Adam Casey: Because I imagine that you just, well, maybe in the trail running community, I’m not going to lie, maybe you can do this where you just put it up an event page and someone’s. Like, eventually you’ll find, I mean, I, I look at, I’ve been looking at races all the time. And so maybe it’s easy enough in a trail running community, but how do you go about recruiting people to, to just, yeah, to be, to be involved with something like this, even because I, and I would love to maybe in a follow up question, just ask about that first race that you guys had.
Bob Africa: Yeah. I mean. You know, when we said let’s do an event and I’ll let Peter speak to kind of the actual event because it’s on his family’s land. But, you know, we just said let’s do something. You know, let’s start small. So we did a 10k and I don’t know if we had 30 people and, you know, we didn’t know what we were doing at all.
Bob Africa: We had both raced plenty, but, you know, there’s a whole new awareness and appreciation and understanding for what a race director does in that whole community. It’s, it’s humbling and it’s, you know, so much gratitude for what these people do.
Bob Africa: But, you know, I think we got that from our, just our circle of friends.
Bob Africa: We could get that many people. So early on, it was almost just kind of like a little reunion with, with a handful of friends and maybe, you know, one, one or two degrees of separation from there, you know, since then it’s grown a lot. You know, Peter has, you know, carried that mantle and has driven all the marketing and, you know, he’s a phenomenal connector, you know, so well liked and respected by so many different kind of circles that that has just fueled it.
Bob Africa: But yeah, the first event was pretty funny and I’ll let, I’ll let Peter kind of talk, speak to the first one. So.
Peter Downing: It was it was, it was interesting, and I think Bob and I realized that the best part about all of this that we do, and you’ve talked about this too, Adam, is the, this community, and there’s something very special about getting this crew together and, Doing something that we all share with a, with a real, you know, a goal in mind to accomplish something good.
Peter Downing: And so, as Bob said, my family has this piece of land up near, it’s off North Turkey Creek Road near Evergreen. And We’re sort of convinced that my grandfather, who bought it, bought it back in the 20s, so he and his cronies had a place to drink during Prohibition, but we, somebody’s told me there’s a still on the land.
Peter Downing: We’ve never found it, but that’s just a testament to my granddad’s, you know, ability to hide things but it’s all under a conservation easement. There’s a little cottage up there and the rest of it is just this Wide open land that’s, it’s just full of elk and deer and wild turkeys and bobcats and bears and lions and all of that.
Peter Downing: And there was not much in the way of, shall we say, infrastructure for an event. So my brother, Jeff, who is our chief volunteer as well he and I tackled this project to, to, Build a trail and it was such a rugged trail. It was not like what we all are so used to running on. It was yeah, there were places you would absolutely have to stop and go.
Peter Downing: I wonder where I go. That’s interesting. But it was circuitous up and down and we just we got 20 to 25 people to show up. Every one of whom had just a really great day. And it really, I just remember, even though we, it wasn’t big, we felt like we had just really scored. It felt really successful to us because the camaraderie was there.
Peter Downing: The community was there. The vibe was over the top. And so all that did was convince us that. There’s more we can do and to, to figure out how to get bigger and so on. But It’s it’s a very special thing when those everybody gathers in that good spirit and with good intentions something extremely good about that.
Adam Casey: It’s a vibe I think yeah over the last three episodes that I’ve done that word has just come up naturally because there’s no other way to describe and in the You know, people I’ve been talking to are also trail runners in that sense and race directors. And so it’s yeah, there’s, there’s no better word to describe just that energy and that vibe when everyone just kind of comes together, especially around something that means so much to probably each person that’s involved.
Adam Casey: Peter, you, you actually have a background in marketing is from what I know. So how, how did that contribute to your work with Suffer Better?
Peter Downing: I was really lucky. I I back in, must’ve been about two, well, it was earlier than that because I really got it. Lucky and I, I had one of these jobs that was and it’s, yeah, I was the film festival director for this new Action Sports film festival that started back in the nineties when a guy, Bob and I both know, started a magazine called Gravity and.
Peter Downing: They got a bunch of money from an outdoor company to, to organize this film festival. And so that’s really where I got my feet wet doing that because I was essentially the sole employee. So I had to do everything and I got to learn a lot about all that. And then over time I ended up joining a really big outdoor industry PR firm working with a dynamite gal named Chris Goddard.
Peter Downing: And then ultimately one of the guys who had been with Fila, who was the film festival’s big sponsor after the film festival faded cause Fila pulled all its cash out. We, both of us, he was also a recovering attorney and, but he was creative as hell and we just decided let’s, let’s do something. And we met, we got our first client on a run up Camelback mountain outside of Phoenix.
Peter Downing: At a conference, I ran into the guy from Nike ACG, which existed at the time. It was walking up the mountain. It was literally five in the morning. And he, so he must’ve been up all night. And he was in the process of trying to pick, uh, a firm to work with. Our firm was literally. An hour old by the time I met him.
Peter Downing: So he told me kind of what they wanted. I ran back to our hotel. We were in Phoenix for this conference and I told Dave okay, we have an opportunity here. So we, we scribbled something together and send it off to this guy from Nike and. We’ve got hired to be the, the voice of Nike ACG. And that was true for ultimately like five years, I think.
Peter Downing: And so we learned on the fly a lot of times. I mean, we did everything from print ads to PR to catalogs to, you know, I don’t even think social media even existed back then. So, but we learned and, and it’s, it’s that thing that if you ever want somebody to pay attention to what you’re doing, you got to figure out how to touch base with them.
Peter Downing: And that’s what we worked on. And, and, and I think we figured a lot of that out over time. And I still think it’s true. Those are really basic rules about that.
Adam Casey: And Bob, how about you? How is, kind of, maybe explain what your role is with this partnership and then if you could how your outside work because, you know, as much success as Suffer Better is having, you know, unfortunately, we’re not all retired on the Cayman Islands just yet and I know that you have, you you also have a job outside of Suffer Better and so I’d love to hear how your professional experience outside of the organization contributes to how you run how you run this.
Bob Africa: I don’t know. I mean, I’ve been an operator kind of leadership of consumer product companies for the last 25, 30 years. So that’s what I’ve, I’ve done, you know, small companies, you know, that are 15, 20 people and, you know, 10 or 15 million and large companies that are, you know, 250 people and 300 million.
Bob Africa: So I’ve got to have run the gamut there as far as leadership roles and responsibilities, you know, as far as how I bring that. Suffer Better. Probably not a whole lot, honestly. I think that, you know, Peter, like I said, does all the heavy lifting these days, I kind of come in and help and support, you know, be another voice or set of eyes, you know, definitely worked the Rolodex and connections.
Bob Africa: But yeah, I, I, if anything, I probably try not to bring that to it. You know, maybe that’s for better or worse, but you know, for me, Suffer Better as a place to not think about. The business side of it so much and think about more the community and connection side of it again. Maybe that’s the fault but Yeah, when I when I get into the Suffer Better mode, it’s it’s a lot of times supporting peter and you know just watch him watch him when he the magic he makes and and you know do when I show up and And help, help out with it.
Bob Africa: So I’m not quite at the Cayman islands yet. I kept saying that for a few years now that, you know, Hey, when I do kind of hanging up, then I’ll be able to put more energy into it. And I’ve been saying that for too long.
Bob Africa: Yeah, it’s the. The idea of of just skipping away. I don’t know, for me, and honestly, what you guys are doing is, is what I dream about doing myself.
Bob Africa: I mean, I feel like if I could, you know, that, that question of if you had a million dollars, what would you do? It’s for me, it’s I would live in my van, giving free coffee to people, traveling around to trail races maybe not running, like race. Like organizing a race, but I would love to just be a profe, not a prof, even a professional, like a pro bono pacer where I would just , I’m like the, just showing up at races in a trail angel sort of sense.
Bob Africa: And I’m just, you know, at Miles 62, at Leadville, at like Twin Lakes or something, just with the sign saying who needs a pacer? And just running with people.
Peter Downing: That’s a great idea.
Adam Casey: If you guys wanna start a third organization, we can, we can all go in on this together.
Peter Downing: Yeah, but you’d probably be really busy if you did that, honestly, if you think about that, I’ll bet you would be,
Adam Casey: I say this jokingly, but I’m very serious.
Adam Casey: It’s, it’s one of those things where I kind of, in my head, I think, wait, why has no one come up with this? Or maybe someone has, and it’s just been a fail, you know, maybe it just doesn’t exist for a reason, but for the most part, I, Yeah. That’s, I, that’s, and that’s actually my plan for this year’s Leadville, because I’ll be house sitting out in Viuna Vista, and I’ve thrown it out there to a couple of people that I know that are running Leadville, like, hey, if you need a pacer, let me know, but if no one else take, like, if no one grabs me, I’m not kidding you, I’m going to stand at Twin Lakes with a poster board.
Adam Casey: Just that has question, you know, pacer question mark. And if anyone needs me to, to do it, cuz I mean, clearly I’ll just talk the whole time and Yeah, can’t worry about that. But that’s that’s something I would love to, I would love to bring into existence. But again yeah, maybe we could have that offline conversation.
Adam Casey: Yeah, exactly. I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna give too much away. I don’t want anyone Right. One out underneath me. But that’s great. So, you know, Peter, It seems like you have more of the connections in the running community, whereas Bob, you probably have more of the professional connections in the business community.
Adam Casey: And so Peter, if I’m correct in that assumption, I’m kind of curious why, and maybe you guys have thought of this, but why are not more professional runners involved with this? Why not more, like, have you attempted to bring in big names, you know, insert whoever into one of these events to draw more people, or is that something that you’ve…
Adam Casey: Already thought of and you just don’t think is a good idea at this point?
Peter Downing: I don’t think it’s that. We don’t think about that. I mean, we have, and, and let me back up two seconds and say probably, I mean, in truth, I mean I’m, I only have more connections if I even do have more connections just cuz I’ve been around so much longer.
Peter Downing: I mean, Bob has a, I mean, Bob’s. Probably done better overall when you think about it and all these things than I ever did. I mean, back when I was really competing, it was a different universe. And I mean, I, I, I honestly, I ran with the Tara Mahara back in Leadville at that day, you know, and, and I think given where we are today with social media and sponsorships and all those kinds of things, I just think the running world is, is much smoother.
Peter Downing: A different place, not better, not worse, but it’s, it’s definitely bigger and draws a bigger audience. And so I think there’s part of that. The other thing we run into is of course, you know, people who are some of those big names, they want money. For things like that. And you know, we always, they all have races that their sponsors put them in and, and things like that.
Peter Downing: And, and we, I, I honestly think we, we really feel like in a way, yeah, great, but at the same time, it’s not about that. It’s we’re, it’s all about all of us and what we are able to do singly and collectively and So we, that, that hasn’t been a big issue, big thing for us to try to draw the big names. I mean, but at the same time we get some and it’s just, we don’t play it up, I guess.
Peter Downing: And and I think sometimes our, our runs are. In a way, as we, as we talk about community, the spirit and the vibe of ours is, is sort of less competitive in a way and, and, and more about the togetherness. So maybe that doesn’t work for some people who have to hit podiums. But I, I think of, you know, Annie Hughes, who’s a total stud, and, you know, she won RUFA for us, and, you know, people along those lines who, who have done that, and they show up, but, but, what we love about them is they’re just these humble, good people who are out there to join in and be part of it, and so, that’s really what we’re all there to celebrate.
Bob Africa: Yeah, I mean, we’ve had, you know, Annie and Claire and Kyle, and… You know, Courtney out there and Darcy, but it’s just not, you know, you know, line up and go no matter what, you know, first, last, or somewhere in the middle. That’s, it’s just, that’s not what we just, I don’t think we’re even wired that way to think that way.
Bob Africa: And our, and our races are, you know, they’re not huge, you know, they, there’s gotta be some volume there so that there’s some leverage you can get out of all the time and effort and dollars you put into it. But You know, our goal is not to have a race of 250 or 300 people, you know, the sweet spot we found is, you know, 100 to 150, you know, maybe, maybe a push a bit more if you are talking about multiple events like a 25 or 50 K, but that keeps it small and community and you can really look every person in the eye and shake it, you know, think of one’s hand and or high five.
Bob Africa: And, you know, that that is the magic. I think that our events bring and it’s a You know, I know other events do that as well. You know, we’re not unique in that sense But there there’s a feeling that people that come to our you know, whether it be our running events the rufa you know, we do a farm the table fundraiser every year in September but you know, no matter what the event is I think there’s just a real people have a great time and it’s it’s about community community and connection for a good cause.
Adam Casey: And who are some of the companies or brands that you might have connected with over the years, and how did you go about identifying them, or maybe they, they reached out to you, but how did you go about deciding to work with them?
Adam Casey: And I’ll throw that, I’ll throw that back over to Peter.
Peter Downing: I mean, obviously, one of the things we look for is that they, they, they, there’s some alignment in, in, in what we all believe and, and that so that we work with companies that you know, focus on all the things that matter to us, the environment, inclusivity, diversity, and all of those pieces.
Peter Downing: And so, I mean, we were, Bob and I are lucky and in this other sense that we, because we both know a lot of people in this world, we. We know people in, at these various companies and, and I mean, Bob, way back in the day, we used to work with the guy who started Hoka. And, and Hoka has been one of our partners really since the get go.
Peter Downing: And in the other shoe companies, we work with Sportiva and Salomon and All of that, they’re, they’re all companies that make sense for us, and really the ones we work with on, on our, our, the local level, and it’s like working with, you know, Adam Berkeley Park or BP Run and working with these, the reason we work with them is because Phil is so great at building community, and he’s done such a good job for them, and that it’s just, it’s a natural place for us to, to drop in, and.
Peter Downing: Sometimes, you know, we’ve reached out to some of these non endemic, you know, companies, they’re sort of like, what, you do what? So, you know, so we’ve stuck pretty, you know, close to the industry and And it’s worked for us and we each year we somebody new comes on board. And so we grow in that regard.
Peter Downing: And so, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re building that piece of the community as well, and so that’s always exciting.
Adam Casey: You’ve had a few years to, to throw, to put on these events and to grow and everything. Curious, what kind of impact have, have you guys had in, you know, maybe it’s dollars raised or some other metric that I can’t think of.
Adam Casey: But what, what, yeah, from, from the day that you only had 20 or so people to today, where you’re realizing like, hey, 200 is way too many, we need to dial it back a little bit. How has, how has Suffer Better contributed? for the better to its mission of environmentalism.
Peter Downing: I’ll start with this at least several ways.
Peter Downing: The, the most important is from our side really is education. And so even though our events focus on raising money for these things, each one of our events, we put on related presentations and programs so that if we’re talking about clean air, for example. We gather the crew at, and Patagonia has been great at their shops to host us and we have an evening or where we bring in people from the regional air quality council conservation Colorado, protect our winters to talk about, okay, our air is crappy.
Peter Downing: What does that mean? And what, what can we all do about it? And really what we’re really hoping is for people to understand that. They can be a part of the solution. And so that’s a big piece of it. And then of course the money we raise, we finally, you know, it’s not tons, but for an organization, our size, we’ve raised over 125, 000 over the last five, six years to go to these various nonprofits that we support that.
Peter Downing: And they put that money into programs and electing the right people who care about the things we care about. And, I’ve even, I’ve even gone a couple of times down to the legislature with Conservation Colorado to lobby for bills on air or public lands. And it’s really nice to then, to be on that active side as well.
Peter Downing: And, so, and, and the, our events do grow, so I know we’re attracting more people and the community’s getting bigger, and it’s collectively, I actually, I’d like to think we’re making a difference.
Adam Casey: I would like to think so, too. It’s, you guys have definitely put on something and, you know, I, we were talking yesterday and I told you, I gave you the unfortunate news that you’re, you’re going to be seeing me in person at one of your events, I think at the fish slapper event later this year. And for anyone who was on, who was curious what the term fish slapper might be, maybe they should check you guys out, but can I, as we wind things down and I want to be really respectful of your guys time, but One kind of one question that I want to leave our listeners with and just something that’s been that just kind of is shining through with me is your guys relationship with each other and you guys are running this organization and maybe it’s not a for profit business but it’s still an organization that you guys are both putting your names behind and I’m want to know like how if at all and I’m assuming that the answer is it has has running this organization together or this somehow strengthened your relationship over the years?
Adam Casey: And since Peter put him on the spot first with their first question, Bob, I’m going to put you on the spot first with this one.
Bob Africa: Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely brought us together and, you know, many, many ways. I mean, just, you know, thinking strategically and, you know, vision mission, you know, what, what, you know, values, what do you stand for?
Bob Africa: Like all that stuff comes up, right. When you’re kind of creating something. So that just. brings people together and has conversations and mindsets that are typically different than if you’re just kind of out running in the hills or, you know, hanging out as friends. So that, that’s, that’s been great in that sense.
Bob Africa: I think there also comes, you know, it’s not. Not a heavy attention, but there’s a tension because sometimes it’s like, I know that Peter wants to do something more with it. And I feel like I’m sometimes holding it back because I’ve got the day job. So, so there’s also like that yin and yang of that. And you know, one of the things that we had talked about when we first kicked it off was like, you know, let’s do something together, not alone.
Bob Africa: And, you know, I just know that sometimes Peter’s. For sure alone in it because I’m not able to put in the energy that you know I’m able to because the day job and you know, his kids are out of the house. Mine’s not so just you know life So that’s one thing that I would say kind of comes up here.
Peter Downing: Yeah But and at the same time we almost always make the the big decisions together Bob has an expertise in, in a lot of things that but just so useful for me to get his take and opinion. And so when it, almost always we talk about these things and you know, it’s, it’s, Any kind of, it’s like any relationship, you know, we, we have our moments where it’s like, Oh shoot, I wish this.
Peter Downing: And I so trust him and I so like him that it it’s always easy and to get there and figure things out together. And you know, I mean, we are what we are and we’ve only gotten there because. Of the two of us doing what we’ve done together. And so it’s I’m pretty happy with all of that. And, you know, it’s we’re making a difference.
Peter Downing: We’re, we’re getting bigger. We have opportunities that neither one of us would have imagined for this thing. Five years ago. And so it’s it’s something that gets me up in the morning, keeps me going and, and something that I just, I love as much as I can, you know, love anything like that, you know, an organization.
Peter Downing: So I think we’re great. We’re good together and we’re doing some good things.
Adam Casey: I feel like there’s not going to be any more beautiful of a way to, to wrap this up. And I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for taking the time to talk to me today. And thank you for just putting on the event and giving all your energy into it.
Adam Casey: It’s really, it’s really something I think that’s, that’s only just beginning. And it’s in its own beginnings of becoming something even more special and I can’t wait to see 10, 20 years from now how it grows. How would you like people out there listening to discover your work and get involved?
Peter Downing: First visit us, sufferbetter. com. Come run with us. We’ve got our events. They’re all live on the site. You can check those out. I always encourage people to sign up for our newsletter, which just goes out once a month, which is our way of sort of touching base with our community and letting them know what’s going on, where and, and how to get involved.
Peter Downing: We love volunteers if you’re not a runner or you’re pert or any of those kinds of things, I think our volunteers are some of the most special people ever and you can’t do this without them. So that’s a great way to get connected in. And just, you know, stay in the loop with us and we’ll we’ll find ways to support you as you find ways to support us.
Bob Africa: And I would just add, you know, all those things are great and for sure come find, come find us. Come play with us. Come meet with us. But also when you’re out there, You know, on the trail or not suffering, you know, whether you want to or not try to do it with a smile on your face and embrace it better.
Peter Downing: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.
Adam Casey: Thank you guys so much for, for talking to me today. I will make sure that I include links to Suffer Better in the show notes for anyone out there that’s listening. But like I said I’ll be talking to you guys soon, but I’ll be seeing you guys soon enough.
Peter Downing: Oh yeah.
Peter Downing: Awesome. Thank you so much. Bye. This was a great afternoon way to spend some time and I really appreciate you talking to the two of us and, and helping us spread the word.
Bob Africa: Yeah, thank you. We’ll see you soon.
Peter Downing: Thank you very much.
It Matters To Me Podcast 